The trail of tears---what a perfect example of a people that did not quit! Surrendering because you are beaten is differnt than quitting. The Japanese and Germans didn't quit at the end of WWII, they lost---huge difference. So, the native Americans (not an expert generalities only) faced with total annihilation made the decsion to stop fighting to preserve themselves as a nation. Now, they start the Trail of Tears--they don't quit---through incredible hardship the do not quit--they could have--they could have said "no" but they kept walking and they preserved their nation to live to preserve the potential for a future.
"And the daily trials of people in order to keep their jobs inorder to support have to endure humiliation and work in unsafe environments. which often includes skilled well paid men." Here is another example of people not quitting---everyday many people go through horrendous lengths to provide for themselves and others at a huge sacrifice to their own desries and dreams-that is admirable. Seen it a thousand times in places far more impoverished than anywhere in the United States that I am aware of (specifically Riberalta Bolivia and Soa Paolo Brazil)
This is what I wrote and the context was of BUDS training and D-day, not a larger sociopolitical economic arguement--though I can clearly see how it could have been construed as such---
"My hypothesis is that people quit because they can--there is a soft spot to land upon giving up, remove that option and people stick it out...what else can they do? Then they are better for it" I did not intend to say that the existance of a place to land was bad--I said that absent that place, people would endure--it isn't a matter of choice it is a matter of fact---in context, the guy on the beach on 6 June 1944 had not way out--quitting didn't get him out. And I know that many did quit, but without that soft place, quitting provided no benefit other than a quicker death.
"Sometimes giving up is the only means of physical and mental survival" I would love an example of this---I ABSOLUTELY agree that submission is frequently the best course of action--and that sometimes that submission must last lifetimes, but submission and quitting are different. The native Americans submitted and were subject to the Trail of tears and generations of horrible living that continues toady---but I will not agree that they gave up---they chose to survive and are now better postioned to maintain their heritage than had they fought to the death. The US Army surrendered in the Philipines and were subject to the Batann death march--more died than lived but some survived---they didn't quit, they made a horrible choice to submit rather than die.
It is an accepted psychological fact (wrong word) that people will do more to avoid pain than seek pleasure. (you have a five dollar bill you are hungry but not starving--missed lunch and breakfast and it is dinner time--it costs you five dollars to eat and it costs you five dollars to not get punched in the nose--how do you spend it?) I believe it true. If you have no option, by definition, you have to endure or kill yourself.
THoughts?
Cheers!